GARY ASQUITH ABOUT ALL THINGS REMA-REMA AND BEYOND

Hello Gary, I would like to first talk and ask about the history of Rema-Rema, and its aftermath, before diving into your more personal work; especially as a kind of curator for the Rema-Rema back catalogue ànd the soundtrack album to Marco Porsia's documentary about Rema-Rema, What You Could Not Visualise...

I've always believed that God put me on this planet to say some things other people are often afraid to say or haven't yet thought of. Make what you will from it. The bigger your shovel the more you will uncover with my repertoire. "We've All Got Something To Sell, We've All Got A Story To Tell"

As far as the documentary teaches us, Rema-Rema comes from the ashes of Punk band The Models with ex-members Mick Allen and Marco Pironi (he of the first Siouxsie and the Banshees lineup and concert at the 100 Club Punk Festival in 1976) completed with Mark Cox, you and drummer Dorothy ‘Max’ Prior (who goes as Max for the time being)… All of you had a background in Punk, but were determined to make ‘music that nobody’s done before’… Punk was ‘dead’ ever since Sid Vicious joined the Sex Pistols, as agreed upon by Max and Marco… Well, you díd give the Punk ethos a serious spin, didn’t you…?

We were all blessed to have been young & needing youthful inspiration in 1976/77. Coming on the back of the flamboyant Glam Rock movement that emerged in the early 70's, Punk Rock was more dressing down than dressing up. There were so many bands that needed checking out & playing every night that your clock never stopped & time slowly evaporated like a liquid turning into gas. "Slow down you're moving too fast"

One of my fave statements = ‘…Post Punk don’t care…’ … Not about where you find your inspiration and how you feed it to your own work, not about whether your clothes ‘fit in’ with the Punk crowd or not… A friend who helped write the book of the Antwerp and Belgian Punk scene told me that in the beginning there was no ‘Punk uniform’ anyway… “…we just looked different… it changed when people began wearing mohicans and dressing in a certain uniform way… then we knew the momentum of the original Punk was over…”… I agree with her that the music that came àfter Punk was more interesting…

Oh, hold on... you've just evoked a memory from the early 80's when I visited a person called Marc Desmare from the band La Muerte in Brussels with then 4AD maestro & founder Peter Kent. I can remember walking into a room in Marc's house where there was a poster of Adam and the Ants "Kings Of The Wild Frontier" cover on his wall. I can remember trying to work out for myself whether I liked it or not…? I was the rabbit in the headlights for a few seconds. Previously, I'd been stuck in a traffic jam in Battersea, Southwest London (I'm from West London) with my car radio on and Adam was being interviewed about his new band lineup & I remember him talking about Marco Pirroni like he was the new guitar messiah he'd rescued from the undeserving melancholic Rema Rema. It was like we'd press ganged Marco into a life of debauchery & nonentity that only a knight on a silver stallion could reprogramme into the Super Star Glitterball he deserved to be. Adam was the alchemist and I was one of sad lonely abusers. Unbeknown to everyone listening to BBC radio that day I'd stopped believing in Fairy Godmothers when the tooth fairy never turned my under the pillow tooth into a shilling when I was an infant in short trousers. I liked the original Adam and the Ants line up & prefered their earlier music to what then became the meaningless pop extravaganza. I never disliked the new incarnation, I just prefered the original songs. Give That Dog A Bone....I should have got myself a stall selling broken biscuits!

I agree with hindsight that those that had developing minds that started at the Punk Rock basecamp were often the best achievers & true iconoclasts for the next generation. "Don't put all your pennies in the same piggy bank" I'd just finished my apprenticeship with Rema-Rema & I'm now a more professional & mature alcoholic/drug addict & raconteur with bigger ambition. BOOM

Originally there wasn't any particular style to Punk Rock & the style you wore depended on your own imagination. Some people never had an imagination & therefore had little style. Malcolm Maclaren & Vivian Westwood designed the styles for a small minority of the off the shelf Punk Rockers to wear. Those were wonderful creations without a doubt. But were they supplying the needs of the middle class Punk Rockers with larger wallets rather than those working class juveniles that kick started the movement? You Decide!

To quote Ivo Watts-Russell : ‘…5 remarkable individuals and the music they crafted brought this old man to tears…’… When did you feel that being 5 individuals worked against the unity…? Or do you feel that everyone’s input did find its way into the music rather nicely…?

From my own experience of navigating through different musical projects I find that the character within the characters involved in the projects & their individuality within the group is harder to keep together depending on their own self interest. Egos are insufferable commodities that freely flow through creative minds & often lead to one's own downfall. Faith is about the congregation, not the individuals promoting the faith.

To quote Peter Kent & Ivo : ‘…Rema-Rema made their own category…’… How did you feel about that back then and also now…? (we have also you working together with Malaria!, but we’re getting there)

I always felt that there was a relentless resourcefulness about the individuals in Rema Rema & I'm still of the same thinking. We had a strong working ethic & made a lot of progress in a short space of time. Malaria! seemed like minded from my understanding & having spent some time with them when I was residing in Berlin during 1981. I always liked the idea of an all girl band that didn't have all that unwanted male testosterone. Recording the Mutabor! tracks with the Malaria! girls in Berlin was a brief riposte from the lunacy of having recorded the 4AD, Mass album, Labour Of Love.

Rema-Rema played its first gig on January 1st at Toyah Wilcox’s warehouse Mayhem… Alsof or other gigs R-R would opt for more unusual locations. One time R-R had itself backed by footage of the H.G. Wells movie Things To Come… Any rememberings to both events and the choice of this modus operandi towards gigs…?

We always tried to find interesting places around London to play live & the mixed media events with films seemed an obvious thing to do. Escaping plague & anarchy for a shot in space with the HG Wells 1936 movie "Things To Come" was a perfect choice & later we played with the film " The Man With The Golden Arm"...but that might have been with the group MASS?

I remember the Toyah Mayhem/Nagasaki Ballroom gig being a cold evening & chatting with Banshee Steve Severin & Steve Strange getting on my nerves. It was also the first time I spoke with future Adam and the Ants bassist Kevin Mooney who was in a supporting band called European Cowards. During the Screen On The Green Gig after the Things To Come screening I can remember Jah Wobble & Keith Levine sitting directly in front of the stage & leaving really early in our performance & I was wondering if we were too noisy or what was shaking their trees? Not much else comes to mind...It's a strange coincidence that a couple of years later Kevin would play in the same line up as Marco Pirroni in Adam and the Ants …

Rema-Rema would exist from 1978 up until that fateful November 14 in 1979, when Marco Pirroni announced that he was joining Adam and the Ants… What do you remember of that event…? Marco was also the only ex-member from Rema-Rema that declined to cooperate on the documentary What You Could Not Visualise… Does anyone know his opinion about how the docu turned out…?

Oh, I didn't know it was November the 14th when Marco phoned to say goodbye, forever. It would have worked better on Guy Fawkes Night, November the 5th. I like surprises & the smell of gunpowder. I've no idea what Marco's opinion is about the documentary & I think it was probably for the better that he had no involvement in its making if he feels marginalized or harbours resentment. He'll always have a special place in my memories because I spent more time with Marco during 1978/79 than any other person on the planet & we always had a giggle & I have a quaint memory of writing the song "Short Stories" alone with Marco in his Bedroom after having written the lyrics the night before. "Those People Over By The Mounds Are Looking Like Casts Of Plaster"

Since there was talk with Peter Kent & Ivo Watts-Russell to release material from Rema-Rema (after changing the name of their label from AXIS to 4AD) and (after a prolific gig with Human League and Siouxsie at Banshees) Marco had pulled the plug, the EP Wheel In The Roses (4AD number BAD 5) was a posthumous affair… However, listening to the material that was not included on the EP (but later on different releases on Le Coq Musique, Inflammable Material and again 4AD) sounds promising enough…

Playing at the Rainbow Theatre with The Banshees & Human League was an arrival moment for Rema-Rema. We had a larger stage & bigger audience & we performed really well & won people over that had previously never heard of us. What was most concerning for me was seeing David Bowie standing at the side of the stage when we walked on. We were expanding our congregation!

I can remember finding a cassette recording of International Scale while I was recording with Renegade Soundwave & thought “…Wow, this still sounds really good to me…”... I decided to speak with Daniel Miller's secretary to book an appointment to see if Mute would be interested in releasing it & Daniel seemed to like the track but gave me the polite brush off. You know, like the fella that has some dandruff on the shoulder of his jacket & gently brushes it off before leaving the bathroom to join the party. Afterwards, I thought it was probably more diplomatic because Rema-Rema was always affiliated to 4AD & I don't think they liked stepping on each other's artists' feet. Many moons later I got connected to Michael Clarke from Inflammable Material Records & he jumped at the idea of releasing the first Rema-Rema record since the posthumous "Wheel In The Roses" release in 1980. Having negotiated the release of the Fond Reflections album in 2019 with 4AD I was pleasantly surprised that I had another album of material I could release myself as the Fond Reflections album had been so well received. It's pretty wacky that after 40 years you get the first Rema-Rema album (instead of an EP) & then a year later you get the 2nd "Small Doses" album. Bravo to all involved.

My fave track (that was not included on the original Wheel In The Roses EP) is Entry; partly because of that exquisite moment where the synth hangs alone in the air, before the rest of the band joins in again… IMO, Entry was the track where everything came together, a perfect example of Rema-Rema being the sum of its components… But Entry proved to be a ‘problematic’ track to get released…? The band decided soon enough that moving on as Rema-Rema without Marco was not the same… Then Max left… Then you became MASS, with the addition of one Danny Briottet… Apart from the individuals, how much Rema-Rema do you (in your personal opinion) find back in MASS…?

Entry was one of a new batch of songs that we were working on before Marco left. It's an indication of the direction we were heading. More structural & atmospheric & less guitar based. I'm a big fan of the Exit instrumental on the B-side of Entry & always spin it over once I've played side A. Everyone should have an Entry & Exit in their record collections. Originally the Rema Rema studio recordings were made for Charisma Records & they declined the chance to release the tracks due to there being a blasphemous line in the lyrics of Entry. It turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to Rema-Rema because Charisma Records no longer exist & 4AD is still a flourishing label.

It’s funny how both Rema-Rema as MASS have their influence on the first full album by This Mortal Coil, It’ll End In Tears (CAD 411)… Cinder (later founder of Cindytalk) sang a new rendition of R-R’s Fond Affections and the title of the record was a dry comment of Mick Allen to the play fighting between you and Danny Briottet during a meeting for a photo session at Ivo’s…

I only recently found out about Mick's comment "It'll End In Tears" about Danny & myself supposedly play fighting & I have absolutely no memory of the event. There's a profound truth to that observation from Mick that I won't bore you with right now...But I have this memory of being in Ivo's car & sitting on the back seats with Mick when Ivo played us what was going to be his next release on the 4AD label. It was The Birthday Party's first single release & after Ivo having played the cassette both Mick & myself, in unison shook our heads & together said "YOU DON'T WANT TO BE RELEASING THAT CRAP, IVO"

MASS went on to release a single, You and I / Cabbage (AD 14) and an album Labour Of Love (CAD 107) with 4AD… Then MASS, too, split up… What is your personal memory on that…?

Well, there was the story that Mick was telling everyone that Gary Asquith had gone to Berlin & was never coming back. I needed to recover from the MASS project & I wasn't sure I'd survive another installment. I'm a delicate flower & I needed something different & less intense. MASS was a state of mind that I found too consuming & was monopolizing my thought control unit with overwhelming insistancy.

After MASS, you did found yourself in Berlin, in the company of Malaria!, to make a 12 inch as Mutabor! … Can you elaborate on this, also on the Berlin scene in 81-82 compared to London/England…?

I'd met Bettina Koster from Malaria! backstage when they'd supported The Birthday Party in London in 1981 & we got on like a house on fire. Things were changing quite rapidly & I was a free thinking individual who was always looking for new adventures & didn't much care where they came from. When Bettina left for Berlin she asked me to join her & that is exactly how it played out. We'd sometimes do impromptu live performances with different people in different locations which would involve other members of Malaria! & what other Musicians were about that particular night. It was like stage crashing events when gigs were over & it was an ever changing shape of mostly NOISE & I'm sure Nick Cave joined us on some occasions. I've always preferred Berlin when the wall was still standing & defining the geographical conditioning. Berlin always seemed to be cloaked in a mist from my memory & sometimes you'd hear foghorns wafting through the air. I thought of it like an Industrial German Dickensian atmosphere with Siberean winds blowing you into the nearest Kniepen for a schnapps & much wanted breather from the extreme cold. Making a record with the Malaria! girls seemed like an obvious thing to do & we'd written a couple of lullaby type tunes that hit the mark. "There Is A Place That No One Knows...A Special Place Where We Can Go" …

The rest is history > Mick Allen & Mark Cox would become 4AD stalwart The Wolfgang Press, Max would return to her drum kit for a short stint in Psychic TV (alongside her own bands), Marco was an Ant before going to work with e.g. Sinéad O’Connor and you & Daniel Briottet would go on to form Renegade Soundwave and Renegade Soundmachine… What’s the main difference between R Soundwave and R Soundmachine…?

That's A Great Question: The Renegade Projects are about attitude & the different line ups give them different potential. Each person involved in either of these projects brings their own unique attitude & their influences to these projects. "My Dope Fuelled Beats Add A Lot Of Explosions"

Oh. don't forget that I also do a project called RENEGADE CONNECTION with Lee Curtis. Dubby exploration.

The more recent releases of Rema-Rema archival recordings are, dixit Max, very much the product of your archeological determination to preserve the history and legacy of R-R… I do understand that it started partly with Mark Cox unearthing some rehearsal and live tapes at home…?

I'm your New Mr Retro. Mark Cox is the Magpie of Rema-Rema & great source of information with anything & everything connected to Rema-Rema. I'd been asking for the Demo tapes we'd made for years before Mark finally relented & I'm grateful that he was so protective of these historical documents because I've had serious problems getting back some tapes that i'd left in what i thought was the safe possession of Mute Records only to find they won't fraudulently relinquish them back to their CREATOR & owner, which is me. Can you believe that a record company that I recorded with for nearly a decade are acting like Philistines with one of their previously contracted artists? IT'S SAD, BUT TRUE...

Besides the reissue of the extended Wheel In The Roses EP (as the double album Fond Reflections on 4AD in 2019), the bulk of the retrospective material is released on the labels Inflammable Material and Le Coq Musique (your own label for your own projects Renegade Soundwave, Tranquil Trucking Company, Lavender Pill Mob, …)… Can you tell me more about these labels…?

I think of my label Le Coq Musique & Michael Clarke's label Inflammable Material as the new front line labels that offer outlets to projects that otherwise might be ignored. Both labels are run by people with a genuine love for music who have made sacrifices & developed new ways to work in the ever changing music industry. "Don't park your car in the CEO's parking bay"

The soundtrack that you compiled from Marco Porsia’s docu What You Could Not Visualise, combines material by Rema-Rema, others and soundbites fromThe docu and also the soundtrack contains a reimagined version of Rema-Rema by the artist Mekon (artist name by John Gosling, also ex-Zoskia /Coil). The track and also other work by you can be found on Mekon’s collaboration compilation Hua Hua Plays For You Vol.I (Hua Hua Records, 2024)… Can you elaborate on your involvement…?

John Gosling is someone I've known for decades & he seemed like a perfect choice for a Rema-Rema remix. John also DJ-d for the Documentary afterparty when it premiered @ The Curzon Cinema in London. When he came to compiling the Hua Hua Plays For You Vol.1 he asked if he could include his Rema Rema Remix & I finished a Renegade Soundwave track called A.D.I.D.A.S (ALL DAY I DREAM ABOUT SEX) for its inclusion. I like that album very much & It's odd that Marco Pirroni appears on a track with Primal Scream’s Bobby Gillespie.

Another name on that Hua Hua album, in his role as a producer, is Fritz Caitlin from 23 Skidoo (a band that I love véry much)… With some fantasy I do see some comparitions in between 23 Skidoo’s career and yours : not there top lease people but to follow the own path, tearing up the plan when needed and doing something stubbornly different, soaking up Dub and sampling on the way in your modus operandi, both being referenced by other artists as being influential in how they approach music… How do you see this yourself…?

Yeah, Fritz Caitlin works with John Gosling on most of his current projects. I don't know too much about 23 Skidoo if I'm honest. But, I do know that Renegade Soundwave's Karl Bonnie who worked on A.D.I.D.A.S with me speaks very favourably about them & has some of their records.

Back to the docu : What You Could Not Visualise was (and still is) screened worldwide on chosen locations. During one of those events you and Mick Allen joined the Italian Avantgarde band Larsen on stage to perform some Rema-Rema songs… How came this into being…? And is this the closest we get in seeing some kind of Rema-Rema reunion (I suppose Marco Pirroni might not be that keen)…? As for, the soundtrack itself: can you tell me how you made your selection…?

Marco Porsia, the Rema-Rema documentary maker, knew the members of Larsen & recommended joining forces for a special Rema-Rema live performance & screening in Turin. It worked very well & Marco Porsia went on to win the Best Music Documentary Award for the seeyousound Festival in Turin that year. There were several great documentaries being screened & winning the award for best documentary was a major achievement.

The first pressing of the docu on Blu-ray was quickly sold out, let’s hope there comes more, eventually on PAL DVD (Mr. Porsia…? 😉 )… What is in the meantime, in your words, a good reason for people who didn’t see the docu -yet- to buy the soundtrack…?

I think the main benefit about purchasing the vinyl Soundtrack is you get to hear the tracks complete from beginning to end & on the documentary you'll only get snippets. I'm very happy with the choice of narration that we used & the Rema-Rema story runs parallel to the birth of the 4AD label which has some historical musical significance, especially if you like the 4AD label. It's a shame that all the Blu-ray sold out so quickly & I'm also hoping that Marco gets another run of it together soon-ish because several people have asked me where can they buy a copy…

Any final words…? The mic is yours…

(and thank you very much, indeed, for the time you took to answer everything)

I wanted to give you a thank you too for the quality of questions & for the research you must have done to have compiled such an insight to my many projects. Click this link, those that might want to buy a copy of the Brilliant SOUNDTRACK from Inflammable Material Records, and here is also a link to some items from my Le Coq Musique site.

A word about the documentary What You Could Not Visualise >

In 2022 filmmaker Marco Porsia (who completed also a documentaire about the band Swans, Where Does a Body End?, in 2019) released a documentary film about Rema-Rema, called What You Could Not Visualise; taking it’s title from the song Rema-Rema… He gives the mic to all ex-bandmembers (excluding guitarist Marco Pironi, who declined to be interviewed), namely Gary Asquith (vocals + guitar), Michael Allen (vocals + bass), Dorothy Max Prior (drums) and Mark Cox (keyboards). All ex-members tend to look fondly to their time in Rema-Rema; which is not garantueed in music business. Other notable contributions come from former 4AD label boss Ivo Watts-Russell, musician and producer Steve Albini (who did a cover of the song Rema-Rema with his band Big Black), and others… Cinder (singer of Cindytalk) looks back on singing Fond Affections for This Mortal Coil’s album It’ll End In Tears and both Stephen Mallinder (Cabaret Voltaire) and Jim Thirwell (Foetus, etc. ) give a peer’s opinion about the impact of Rema-Rema on the Post Punk scene… Gudrun Gut and Bettina Köster talk about hearing Rema-Rema’s EP Wheel In The Roses for the first time and working together with Gary Asquith in Berlin for their Mutabor! 12 inch Two Wishes… Don’t confuse them with the much younger Berlin punk/ska/folk band Mutabor…! Oh… and then there is this guy, James Elliott; a perfumier (company Filigree & Shadow) who made this fragrance Rema, transforming the sound of Rema-Rema in a smell… How cool is thàt…?

Rema-Rema’s story was one of ‘blink with your eyes and you’ve missed it’… The fact that their only EP, Wheel In the Roses, proved to be so influential is because they chrystallised a certain moment in music history, after which everyone moved on, the former band members as well… It is in hindsight that people began to realise how important that one moment was…

What You Could Not Visualise was (and maybe still is) shown in small theatres (Ghent for Belgium) and on Film Festivals all over the world. Director Marco Porsia has also released a first pressing of Blu-ray, which sold out quickly… …so good luck finding this one…!! Blink with your eyes and you’ve missed it, indeed… One can only hope that Mr. Porsia will decide upon a second print…? You can find Marco Porsia's Vimeo Channel here...

Books published by Dorothy Max Prior >

Dorothy Max Prior, Rema-Rema’s very own Moe Tucker, has published 2 books in which she looks back at her life during the late 70’s and the 80’s…

In the first book, 69 Exhibition Road, she writes about her life on that same address in London; whilst she jumped head first in the nascent Punk scene and beyond, eventually leading in her playing the drums in different bands, including Rema-Rema… Besides working at the ICA (Institute for Contemporary Arts) and other jobs… Expect first witness accounts about people such as Jordan, Stuart (soon to be Adam Ant), Sid Vicious, Marco Pironi (1st Banshee, Rema-Rema guitarist and then boyfriend, future Ant), Genesis P-Orridge, Alex Fergusson, Monte Cazazza, …, and a lot of other people… What’s really interesting : at the end of the book Max has included a short ‘who is who’ of people named in the book and she has also a section where she links different movies, music albums and books, alongside other influences, chapter by chapter… Take notes and go to the library and/or record shop…!

Sex Is No Emergency, the 2nd book, takes it’s title from a quote and single by Monte Cazazza… We read about Max’s life as a dance teacher and drummer, eventually, for Psychic TV… among other things… Psychic TV was on the cusp of transitioning from a grim Avantgarde band to the reinvention as a Hyperdelic band. The studio work with Max didn’t materialise during her stint with Psychic TV, apart from the Godstar single, but came later to light as the album Allegory and Self… Max talks about Genesis P-Orridge, Rose & Drew McDowall, Hilmar Örn Hilmarsson, Björk, Derek Jarman, …; and of course James ‘Foz’ Foster, then guitarist with The Monochrome Set, father of her children and husband to be… Also Sex Is No Emergency does contain a chapter by chapter list with discography, filmography and bibliography…

Both 69 Exhibition Road and Sex Is No Emergency do read as a train and are suitable companions for those who are genuinely interested in Punk, Post Punk and other forms of counterculture, being it in music or other forms of art… By Jove, they are already among my favorites, alongside Art Sex Music and Re-Sisters by Cosey

Both books are published by Strange Attractor and you can order them HERE…

Facing the Other Way – The Story of 4AD >

This book by Martin Aston prooved to be a valuable source in the preparation to this interview and article… Aston digs deep into the archives (posters, promo photographs, album covers …) and has many interviews with band members and employees of the legendary label started by Ivo Watts-Russell & Peter Kent…

Rema-Rema…! Bauhaus…! The Birthday Party…! MASS…! Cocteau Twins…! Dead Can Dance…! The Wolfgang Press…! This Mortal Coil..! Xmal Deutschland…! His Name Is Alive…! … … …

…I mean…

The book was published in 2013 by The Friday Project, an imprint of HarperCollins and is out of print but not difficult to be found online…

Jan DENO
06/03/2026